Podcast

Jack Burrows:
My dad started back in 1915. And I have on the wall of the Office of the store, a license from the town of North Bay. And it was, I think, dated December 16 1916. And it was signed by Mr. Small, who at that time was the clerk of the town. And that was, the first indication that I had of how old the business was. And I think my aunt told me at one time that the business actually started in December of 1915.

Peter Handley:
Harvey burrows and Son is what I remember it, right.

Jack Burrows:
Maybe I can take you back a little further. Let me go back a bit more. My grandfather at one time owned what they call McLeod's Dairy and that was the dairy was the pasture for the dairy was in the area that, you know where Hyler road is that goes out around Chippewa Creek and was back in. I don't know how many acres would be there. But he had that and he owned it was called McLeod's dairy.

Peter Handley:
Did they actually have cattle?

Jack Burrows:
Oh yeah, it was a dairy farm that supplied dairy products to the community. After a few years, they did that for a number of years. And then they decided that it wasn't the type of thing they wanted to be in. They sold the property and the dairy to a group of people. One of who was John Ferguson. And three or four people bought that land and the dairy. My grandfather took the money, and built his house. It's that the red brick house on the corner of Vimy and Algonquin. That's the old Burrows house. And I remember going up, there's kids, we go up there for Sunday dinner. And there wasn't very much up there at that time. I think my grandfather had a house on this side of the street. Dave Morin, D. J. Morin, Senior had a house on the other side. Behind the house, we had a stable and my grandfather had riding horses, that we as kids would love to ride the horses and go back way along Vimy Street and Norwood Avenue all through there was nothing but bush there. My grandfather then set up my uncles and my dad in business. My uncle Elmer had a piece of property on Main Street, which he ran as a butcher shop. His tenant in that building was Phil Mitchell, who had a tea room. So Phil was in that building with my uncle. And that's where the Bank of Montreal is now. Is it the 100 East block? Jack, my other uncle was set up in the gravel, sand and gravel business and he bought some pits up by the golf club road, there were pit all up in there. Several of them were called the Stockdale pits, there's another pit up as a matter of fact, past where you live, if you go back up, Gorman Ville road all the way up at the top, that was the old Sega pit. And there was a lot of a lot of good gravel up in through there. They also had a pit at the back of the Ontario hospital. And they developed a pit in there. And that was pretty coarse gravel. They sold that to the Ontario government, I think back in the 60s to build the Ontario Hospital in there. But that property was not only a gravel pit but there was also a farm they had a barn up on it. It was the Old Roy Farm they called it and I don't think they related to Joe Roy. Then the Ontario hospital came along and bought the land. Then my grandfather set my dad up, got a store. Where we still own the store on the corner of Percy and Cassel and he started up a grocery store there. And of course in those days, small grocery stores like our place, Rankin's, Donnes, Johnny Smize. All those places ran and they were the only people in town selling groceries and at that time was a very profitable business. Very busy. And so my dad started there in 1915. He went across the street and built a warehouse to handle flour and feed. Then he get into the horse business. And where the garden shop is today at the corner of Third and Cassel, that originally was built as a stable. And he had horses in there he bought and sold horses.

Peter Handley:
What kind of horse were these, were they work or riding horses?

Jack Burrows:
These are work horses. That was during the wartime years, and he would go down through the country, he and my uncle, buy the horses bring the back up in cars, unload them down at the ONR stockyards. And as a kid, I can remember I'd be 11 or 12, walking three or four of these big horses with these halters, from the ONR stock cars up to the stable. And in those days, a horse like that would sell for about 250 bucks. Today, I don't know what you pay for one maybe $5,000 $6,000.

Peter Handley:
Now, this picture you brought when would that be taken?

Jack Burrows:
Probably in the early 20s. So that's my dad on the right. You'll notice the old the old wooden floor, the old ceiling, the metal ceiling. As a matter of fact, the people we have in there now: the Purple Relic, the two girls are doing picture frame work and so on. They've restored the store to that state.

Peter Handley:
Is that right?

Jack Burrows:
Yep, they've taken the flooring right down to the old floor. They've even got little hanging light bulbs in there to try to match what was there during those old years

Peter Handley:
And have a union jack?

Jack Burrows:
Yeah, the old union jacket as a matter of fact. They have a piece of that counter cut in two that they used for the counter

Peter Handley:
I can recall going in there in the 60s and you didn't have much space in there

Jack Burrows:
No it was small. It's not a big place. But we ran a grocery store out of there for a number of years. We built that in 63. And, of course, then we had the store and we had the garden center. And of course, we had the building across the street, where we housed the flour and feed. Then we had two employees were with us a longtime Mabel Johnson, and Ken Gardener. And Ken is still living in North Bay. And they had been with us for over 40 years. Ken retired when he was 65 and Mabel was a wee bit younger so she stayed on longer. We were ready to leave the food business because by that time the big stores were in place and you were just trading dollars. We wanted to keep the gardening business and we wanted to keep the stuff across the street. So there's two houses that we own the property, there were two homes on the core one was owned by the Mitchell family. So we bought the house and we put tenants in there for a while. Ray Mcully owned the house on the corner. And that was the last house we needed to complete the corner block. So we arranged to buy the house, and as soon as we had those two places we knocked them down and moved across the street and developed our garden center where it was today. We still have the other property as a rental property. So that started a long time ago, Peter and to what it is today.

Peter Handley:
Do you know when your family actually came to North Bay, or came to this area?

Jack Burrows:
My father was born in North Bay, when they were up on a visit, and visits in those days weren’t a weekend, you'd want to stay for three or four weeks. While they were here, my father was born. Well, then my grandfather moved back to Packinham down the Ottawa Valley. And they had a farm down there. So my dad lived till he I think he was about 14 down there. Then my grandfather's decided to come up this way. That's when he got involved with the dairy. And, of course, built the house. And that's where they lived up here. So that's they came here a long time ago, Peter, I can't tell you the years. My aunt died a couple of years ago, she was 99. And she was as sharp as a tack, she could tell you all these things, who married who and where they, where they started from. It was very interesting.

Peter Handley:
What do you remember, as a kid? I mean, you'd be growing up in the 30s, early 40s.

Jack Burrows:
Not really having much knowledge of the economic condition in those days, those were the days that were depression days. I remember we lived in the apartment over the store. I didn't notice any hardship. I knew that as a kid that age, you know, we rode around and fooled around all the time and outside. I do remember people coming off the trains, when the train would stop up in the CNR, which was just to the right of the store, people coming off there and coming over to the store and begging, asking for a loaf of bread, meat. And my mother would give them something. These people were starving to death. They were on the way west hoping to get work. And that's one thing that stands out in my mind of those times. I think I remember people talking about the war, people would come into the store and say, "do you think we're going to get it now? “And that was coming into the 39. But I do remember those, those discussions. And then when the war started, of course, Chippewa Barracks started up, and soldiers started coming down the street. I think the country was swept up in the war. We were just in elementary school. I went to Queen Victoria and we had a great, great childhood, out doing things.

Peter Handley:
you had to make your own pleasure

Jack Burrows:
Exacty! And we did do that by getting into sports, by getting into all sorts of things going to the lake to swim, to canoe.

Peter Handley:
Did you get into trouble?

Jack Burrows:
Yeah, well, we got in the odd thing. One of the funniest things I think I ever did was-- well it wasn't me, wasn't me but I was there. There's no TV so Friday, so you went to a show, or you went to the Royal, you went to the Capital, or the Melrose. So we were coming down the street and it was cold in January. And Ray was up on this marquee getting ready and he had a ladder there. And of course we saw that and we took the ladder moved away and left Ray up there. And Ray was screaming and shouting and he was freezing. He only had a suit coat on. So we walked down half a block and finally somebody inside the show heard them come up, put the ladder back up and got Ray down. Ray was looking for us for years after that. But we did do that and people went to the show. They went to the Arcadian or you went to DeMarcos and had a milkshake and stuff like that. But there were good years and lots of people doing things. There was a lot of activity and you didn't stay in all the time and just watch a TV set you get up did something, made friends, and got involved.

Peter Handley:
Do you think that's one reason why you became involved with the community the way you have?

Jack Burrows:
Probably because I enjoy it. I enjoy talking to people and that's all we did. Today I think people have a tendency to cocoon and stay inside and entertain themselves with electronics and that type of thing. There wasn't that. And I always remember Christmas time, we would get a book of theater tickets or passes, I think you'd get about five in the middle of a book and they were only about I don't know 50 cents or so. Of course we tear one of those things off and we usually went to a show Friday night or in the old royal theatre and of course they used to have about two features on about five serials. You'd go in there six at night and stay till 12. So it was it was different

Peter Handley:
They had dancehalls as well here?

Jack Burrows:
Yeah, they sure did. They had the Top Hat. The Top Hat was the major one. They used to bring in major bands like Mark Kenny and I think some of the big bands in the states used to come in as well. But they'd have dances down there. I think pretty well every Saturday night at top hat

Peter Handley:
Where was that located do you remember?

Jack Burrows:
That was down in Ferris. I think roughly where the gold dragon is now

Peter Handley:
That far out yet?

Jack Burrows:
Yeah

Peter Handley:
Was there much development leading up that way?

Jack Burrows:
No, very little. Premier road of course it was just a gravel road. And in those days, there was just cottages and little permanent homes. Top Hat was kind of standing out by itself down there. Torbay was another place the kid went to. Trout Lake used to have the marine room, the harbor and the Hughs people. That was a place where you went in the evening and they had a you know, maybe a machine for music and danced and things like that.

Peter Handley:
You remember people don't you?

Jack Burrows:
Yeah, I do. I remember a lot of people I knew. I can look at some of these old photographs and pick people. I've had often I've had people come to me to sports photographs and say "Who is that?" And usually you can pick them up and remember.

Peter Handley:
You played ball? I know you've played ball up into your 20s

Jack Burrows:
I think I was about 28 or 29. Yeah, enjoyed ball it was a good game. We had a lot of fun playing. We met a lot of good people. You recall people who, who were part of the team's. Don Conjino coached us for a number of years; very committed guy unfortunately had a spinal problem so he couldn't walk correctly. And but Don was there and I met a lot of good guys. S o I still see them. We have Sports Hall of Fame dinners. You bump into them. We're always happy to see you great friends. So I enjoyed that.

Peter Handley:
The changes in the business. Are you still pretty much of an old fashioned type of operator. I mean, you haven’t taken that store and put any glitz in it at all.

Jack Burrows:
What has happened the last few years, we moved over there. And we changed the store around to accommodate what we wanted to do. We saw it as a country store. And we can't get too glitzy into, you know, bright, and I think people appreciate the fact that it is the type of old store that still believes in providing good service and good stuff at a good price. My son in law and my daughter are in it now they bought it out two years ago, but I'm just, I'm there and I'm there as a resource. I suppose you might call it Peter. Bob has got lots of good ideas. He's got good ideas, he's full of beans. And it's proper that he should be running this now because it needs someone with lots of new energies and so on. But what I did do but besides lending the store some new energies, is that allowed me an opportunity to do what I'm doing with the city. Because if I had the store to look after that's a full time job. You're there from seven in the morning till seven at night, a 12 hour day, and you've got to be there and commit to that or it's just not going to work. So I started there I think I took over the store when I was 28. It was 1958 when I took it over and my dad he retired. And then since I was there, I've done all the changing, the additions to the outside, and the crossing over, and in developing the property over there. I've enjoyed it every bet that's in business like that. And that means that so many good people that we've had some customers come with us for 40 years. And we just come in and we just know what they want. Yeah, it was a good feeling.

Peter Handley:
Harness horses. Where did that come in the family?

Jack Burrows:
Elmer was one of the other brothers in the family and he was he was the chap I mentioned that the butcher store on Main Street. And he got in along with jack to buying a few racehorses and he had a fairly decent horse up here a few years back with the McCloud head over. And raced him in North Bay, raced him in sturgeon falls. In those days there were a lot of small tracks throughout the area. Burks Falls had a track and unfortunately with the coming of the larger tracks and the purses coming up the small tracks just couldn't compete. So even races at fall fairs started to disappear. And Elmer brought this horse in and he brought him down the state. He got him in New York State, good horse and he and he had a lot of fun with them over the years and he and he was a great race horse. But Elmer and jack had a few horses over the period of time. Again it was a lot of fun. We used to go to the Burks Falls races and Stan Darling used to be the starter and I remember Stan sitting up there and saying getting people to go out and bet and saying that "if you don't speculate, you can't accumulate."

Peter Handley:
Let's say your growth and your parents. Let's use the term farm family, the fact that the friendliness, the getting to know people, and that upbringing has certainly done you done well.

Jack Burrows:
I guess I got it from both my parents, but my dad told me one time he said, "There’s always a place in business for an honest man," and I've always remembered that. You know, I used to get these things from him. And he say a lot of things he told me and say, "don't worry about somebody else's doing business in the city. How are you going to look after his business and look after your own?" So you get that type of, I guess wisdom, but my mother was more gregarious, she was more outgoing. She loved people she was liked. She had a lot of friends. And I guess maybe I got a little bit of both sides. My father was a very, not an outgoing person. But very, very honest. He used to tell me stories about the old days when behind the airport, there must have been five or six old bachelors lived up in there. And of course, those gentlemen come down every Saturday to the store. They buy supplies. And honest people you would never see the like of. One day he told me that this whole gentleman walked into town, and he handed him 50 cents. He said I owed you that for two weeks. He said I had to get down and pay you and that’s how people were in those days. That's a different way of doing business Peter and I think maybe growing up in that. I was I saw that it was part of it.

Peter Handley:
And the fact you had grown up in this community. Also, why did you ever decide to go into politics?

Jack Burrows:
Well, I was on different boards. I was on the hospital board for 12 years. I chaired it for five. I really enjoyed that. That was great. Those were the years we were looking at a new hospital. We did a lot of work on that. I enjoyed those years because that was something I put back in the community. The community has been good to us. I served my time on that. And then when my time was over, and then I thought, well, we'll do something else and get involved because I really feel as I wanted to be involved. Somebody mentioned, why don’t you run for Council. And I thought well, maybe something to do with something new. Try it on for size. So I did, and I was elected. And then I thought, well, I've got three years in just getting to know how things work. As you know, it takes time. Did it again, and was reelected. And then I thought, well, look, I've had my six years on Council. And I think it's time to either move forward, or get off and let somebody else get on. So people came to me again, so why don't you run from there? And then I thought about it, and said alright, so of course, I was elected. And of course, now I'm in my second term, because I was unopposed. Peter, I guess the combination of wanting to put something back in the community, and curiosity of what makes the city tick, how things happened, why they happen. And I'm coming into my fourth term, as you know, a three year term. So I'm still learning the stuff out there, you don't and you're reacting to a lot of stuff, and especially the last year, so when, the provincial government has been giving us more responsibilities. And we're doing more. It's getting to be big business or budget, as you know, if we take on social housing could be up in 80 or $90 million this year. So I think curiosity and wanting to put something back into the community, and I've enjoyed it. And it's been fun.